Mary: Hi! Can you share your name, pronouns, a little about yourself and where you are?
Sam: Sam Shoemaker (he/him). I’m an artist and mycologist based in Los Angeles. I've been here since 2010 but I grew up in Orlando, Florida. I moved away for my MFA at Yale in 2018, and then immediately moved back in 2020.
Mary: It's great to meet you, Sam. You’re entwined with fungi in a few ways, right?
Sam: Yes, living fungi are incorporated into my artwork and Myco Myco is a gourmet mushroom farm I started this year in Los Angeles.
Mary: What spurred your initial curiosity about these strange organisms?
Sam: Around 2015 I was listening to John Cage’s Indeterminacy during my commutes. It’s a nice piece to play on a loop in the car because it doesn’t really have a beginning or an end. Cage just recites these short obtuse stories (many involve encounters with mushrooms) while David Tudor makes noises.
Sam Shoemaker and some chicken of the woods
Fruiting Ganoderma multipileum
Fruiting Ganoderma multipileum
Reishi vessel
The playful forms that emerge act as durational snapshots of the mushroom in relation to its environment. More recently, Sam's love for fungi led him to start a commercial-scale mushroom farm in Los Angeles and he continues to experiment with new methods of mushroom cultivation.
Mary: Hi! Can you share your name, pronouns, a little about yourself and where you are?
Sam: Sam Shoemaker (he/him). I’m an artist and mycologist based in Los Angeles. I've been here since 2010 but I grew up in Orlando, Florida. I moved away for my MFA at Yale in 2018, and then immediately moved back in 2020.
Mary: It's great to meet you, Sam. You’re entwined with fungi in a few ways, right?
Sam: Yes, living fungi are incorporated into my artwork and Myco Myco is a gourmet mushroom farm I started this year in Los Angeles.
Mary: What spurred your initial curiosity about these strange organisms?
Sam: Around 2015 I was listening to John Cage’s Indeterminacy during my commutes. It’s a nice piece to play on a loop in the car because it doesn’t really have a beginning or an end. Cage just recites these short obtuse stories (many involve encounters with mushrooms) while David Tudor makes noises.
Sam Shoemaker and some chicken of the woods
Fruiting Ganoderma multipileum
Fruiting Ganoderma multipileum
Fruiting Ganoderma multipileum
In my early 20’s I idolized all things Fluxus and John Cage. Something about Cage’s relationship to fungi really clicked with me while listening to that piece. I didn’t know anything about mycology or foraging at that time, but I loved imagining this gentle old man with his nose buried in wet club moss looking for boletes. I could try to intellectualize a relationship between art and mushrooms, but on a very basic level I just wanted (and still want) access to this hidden unknowable world. The more I learn about fungi the more mysterious they become.
Mary: Wow, I love that. And I definitely echo the sentiment of a sort of iceberg effect in learning about fungi. I live in the Hudson Valley in NY, near the John Cage Trust. They started hosting a weekend of events in honor of Cage’s love for fungi a few years ago. So I came to understand and appreciate Cage’s work through my myco community. What was it like to explore mycology out in LA?
Joseph Albers. 2019. Pleurotus mushrooms, inoculated art catalogue
Joseph Albers. 2019. Pleurotus mushrooms, inoculated art catalogue
Mary: Wow, I love that. And I definitely echo the sentiment of a sort of iceberg effect in learning about fungi. I live in the Hudson Valley in NY, near the John Cage Trust. They started hosting a weekend of events in honor of Cage’s love for fungi a few years ago. So I came to understand and appreciate Cage’s work through my myco community. What was it like to explore mycology out in LA?
Sam: Getting started with a copy of David Arora’s All That the Rain Promises and More created problems for me. I overestimated the availability of fresh wild mushrooms in Los Angeles. My dog Ruben and I hiked Southern California for 6 months looking for the colorful gourmet mushrooms photographed in that abridged field guide. My bird brain was in denial about our mediterranean desert climate.
Sam: Getting started with a copy of David Arora’s All That the Rain Promises and More created problems for me. I overestimated the availability of fresh wild mushrooms in Los Angeles. My dog Ruben and I hiked Southern California for 6 months looking for the colorful gourmet mushrooms photographed in that abridged field guide. My bird brain was in denial about our mediterranean desert climate.
We don’t have access to soft wet loam and old growth canopies like Northern California. If foraging had come easily to me I wonder if I would have taken my mycology obsession as far as I have today. Desire is more powerful than pleasure! Living in Los Angeles taught me to appreciate parking lot mushrooms and quiet little brown lawn mushrooms most people would walk past.
Mary: We’re definitely spoiled in the Northeast with a temperate rainforest full of charismatic mushrooms. It’s interesting that a relative scarcity propelled your pursuit. What else helped?
Sam: Attending classes and lectures at the Los Angeles Mycological Society taught me a lot. At that time it was a very small group. There were only a handful of people under the age of 50 besides me. In 2016 I attended a 3 day mushroom cultivation workshop led by Peter McCoy. This was before Peter’s Radical Mycology book was published. A few years later I picked up my first 23 quart Presto canner at Walmart and got to work.
Roger Rabbit is a hero. It's been said many times before, but online forums like The Shroomery were paramount in the creation of the multifaceted myco-science community we have today. The internet is still the best place for an education in the science of mushroom cultivation. I continue to learn a lot from people like William Padilla-Brown, Ryan Paul Gates, Eric Myers, Mike Crow, and many citizen scientists in their basements doing cool stuff, solving problems and sharing their progress online. These reishi vessel sculptures wouldn't be possible without Ryan's rare Ganoderma culture library at Terrestrial Fungi.
Mary: Thanks for sharing. We're very lucky to have such a wealth of resources at our finger tips, and lots of great folks to learn from, to learn with. I saw that you've been working with Ganoderma multipileum and a little with Ganoderma sinense. Really beautiful reishi species that don't get much attention!
That brings me to your work. What about fungi makes them the right medium for your practice, and what do they communicate? How did you come to partner with them through your art practice?
Duck Meat's Strawberry Good House. 2019. Fiberglass, flocking, resin, automotive paint, light fixture
Phase IV. 2020. Ganoderma lingzhi, plexiglass, wood, resin, perlite
Sam: Attending classes and lectures at the Los Angeles Mycological Society taught me a lot. At that time it was a very small group. There were only a handful of people under the age of 50 besides me. In 2016 I attended a 3 day mushroom cultivation workshop led by Peter McCoy. This was before Peter’s Radical Mycology book was published. A few years later I picked up my first 23 quart Presto canner at Walmart and got to work.
Roger Rabbit is a hero. It's been said many times before, but online forums like The Shroomery were paramount in the creation of the multifaceted myco-science community we have today. The internet is still the best place for an education in the science of mushroom cultivation. I continue to learn a lot from people like William-Padilla Brown, Ryan Paul Gates, Eric Myers, Mike Crow, and many citizen scientists in their basements doing cool stuff, solving problems and sharing their progress online. These reishi vessel sculptures wouldn't be possible without Ryan's rare Ganoderma culture library at Terrestrial Fungi.
Mary: Thanks for sharing. We're very lucky to have such a wealth of resources at our finger tips, and lots of great folks to learn from, to learn with. I saw that you've been working with Ganoderma multipileum and a little with Ganoderma sinense. Really beautiful reishi species that don't get much attention!
That brings me to your work. What about fungi makes them the right medium for your practice, and what do they communicate? How did you come to partner with them through your art practice?
Sam: Objects and materials that evolve over time have always interested me. I’m drawn to objects that behave, react, change, grow, and carry rhythm.
Duck Meat's Strawberry Good House. 2019. Fiberglass, flocking, resin, automotive paint, light fixture
Phase IV. 2020. Ganoderma lingzhi, plexiglass, wood, resin, perlite
Sam: Objects and materials that evolve over time have always interested me. I’m drawn to objects that behave, react, change, grow, and carry rhythm. Before the mushrooms, I was luring birds into art galleries, designing adventure playgrounds, and creating ecosystems within my sculptures for insects and plants to feed on.
The reishi in my sculptures grow for several months. I like to think of this process as a kind of long camera exposure. If anything changes in the room, the reishi capture it. If I move the LED lights a few inches, raise the temperature, lower the saturation of CO2, or place the reishi too close to another mushroom, they react.
These mushrooms throw tantrums, open up, and express "good moods." They narrate their experience as they grow. When the reishi stop growing and dry out you get this strange thing that exists in mushroom language instead of a photograph. I love how unique each of these artifacts is.
Identical sculptures with identical mushrooms will have different growth patterns purely based on where they are situated within the same room. Unlike a Donald Judd cube made from aluminum, these living objects are highly responsive and relational.
I actually resisted bringing mushrooms into the studio for years. In my head I have a list of reasons why mushrooms are still working against me in the studio.
Before the mushrooms, I was luring birds into art galleries, designing adventure playgrounds, and creating ecosystems within my sculptures for insects and plants to feed on.
The reishi in my sculptures grow for several months. I like to think of this process as a kind of long camera exposure. If anything changes in the room, the reishi capture it. If I move the LED lights a few inches, raise the temperature, lower the saturation of CO2, or place the reishi too close to another mushroom, they react.
A cluster of Blue Oyster mushrooms growing in compost and wood chips.
A cluster of Blue Oyster mushrooms growing in compost and wood chips.
A cluster of Blue Oyster mushrooms growing in compost and wood chips.
These mushrooms throw tantrums, open up, and express "good moods." They narrate their experience as they grow. When the reishi stop growing and dry out you get this strange thing that exists in mushroom language instead of a photograph. I love how unique each of these artifacts is.
Identical sculptures with identical mushrooms will have different growth patterns purely based on where they are situated within the same room. Unlike a Donald Judd cube made from aluminum, these living objects are highly responsive and relational.
I actually resisted bringing mushrooms into the studio for years. In my head I have a list of reasons why mushrooms are still working against me in the studio.
Mary: It's incredible how expressive the reishi are! I'm sure you become very attuned to seeing those small shifts and how that manifests in their form. How would you describe your work to someone unfamiliar with mushrooms?
Sam: I’m struggling to describe it to myself!
Mary: It's incredible how expressive the reishi are! I'm sure you become very attuned to seeing those small shifts and how that manifests in their form. How would you describe your work to someone unfamiliar with mushrooms?
Mary: Hah! Fair enough - Well, what’s the relationship between the fungi, their vessels, and the environment they inhabit?
Sam: If the sculpture speaks too loudly the mushrooms feel overpowered. If the mushroom is doing all the work or hamming it up, the artwork lacks depth, it just keeps hitting the same one note. The balance I’m aiming for is always a little bit off and I’m always a little dissatisfied. It keeps me in the studio. Every work is a response to the last thing I made.
Of course, there are many practical aspects that dictates how these pieces are made. Polypropylene bags made for mushroom cultivation are practical but have a limited aesthetic reach. When I was looking for alternatives to plastic, I was surprised nobody seemed to be exploring ceramics. Glazed stoneware retains moisture, withstands high sterilization temperatures, and can easily accommodate a filtered airport.
This isn’t practical for large scale cultivation, but useful in many ways. Many of my early prototypes were unsuccessful because of little details, like the openings were too large or too small for the mushrooms to fruit. Ceramics is a relatively new medium to me. Lots of trial and error. The series I just started is fabricated out of glass. I’m very excited.
Reishi antlers turning into conchs with zones in response to their environment
Reishi antlers turning into conchs with zones in response to their environment
Reishi antlers turning into conchs with zones in response to their environment
Sam: I’m struggling to describe it to myself!
Mary: Hah! Fair enough - Well, what’s the relationship between the fungi, their vessels, and the environment they inhabit?
Sam: If the sculpture speaks too loudly the mushrooms feel overpowered. If the mushroom is doing all the work or hamming it up, the artwork lacks depth, it just keeps hitting the same one note. The balance I’m aiming for is always a little bit off and I’m always a little dissatisfied. It keeps me in the studio. Every work is a response to the last thing I made.
Reishi antlers turning into conchs with zones in response to their environment
Reishi antlers turning into conchs with zones in response to their environment
Reishi antlers turning into conchs with zones in response to their environment
Of course, there are many practical aspects that dictates how these pieces are made. Polypropylene bags made for mushroom cultivation are practical but have a limited aesthetic reach. When I was looking for alternatives to plastic, I was surprised nobody seemed to be exploring ceramics. Glazed stoneware retains moisture, withstands high sterilization temperatures, and can easily accommodate a filtered airport.
This isn’t practical for large scale cultivation, but useful in many ways. Many of my early prototypes were unsuccessful because of little details, like the openings were too large or too small for the mushrooms to fruit. Ceramics is a relatively new medium to me. Lots of trial and error. The series I just started is fabricated out of glass. I’m very excited.
Mary: Very cool! So you'll be able to see more of the process unfold. Perhaps less of a mysterious emergence than with your ceramic vessels. Anything you’re currently exploring with mycomaterials and sculpture?
Sam: Mycomaterial is one of the reasons I started cultivating mushrooms. I spent most of my 20's covered in fiberglass resins and foam beads fabricating large sculptures. There’s a time and a place for everything, but these materials are terrible for the body, the budget, and the planet. The promise of this alternative material made from fungi eating waste had a big pull for me.
Sam with a mycelium form
Detail of mycomaterial
Two large mycelium forms
Phil Ross’s work was also a big inspiration. I felt empowered that he was able to figure that out as an artist. If he could do it, I bet I could figure it out. And I did! And most people reading this can figure it out too. You’ll produce this strong, lightweight, and aesthetically complex object and wonder why this material isn’t being used everywhere.
For people who are new to this world, it’s hard to convey how little this technology has been explored. You don’t have to have a PhD to stumble upon something new. Feed mushrooms a suitable substrate inside a shaped mold. After the mycelium finish colonizing the substrate, take your mycelium block out and dry it. Done.
Sam with a mycelium form
Detail of mycomaterial
Two large mycelium forms
Phil Ross’s work was also a big inspiration. I felt empowered that he was able to figure that out as an artist. If he could do it, I bet I could figure it out. And I did! And most people reading this can figure it out too. You’ll produce this strong, lightweight, and aesthetically complex object and wonder why this material isn’t being used everywhere.
For people who are new to this world, it’s hard to convey how little this technology has been explored. You don’t have to have a PhD to stumble upon something new. Feed mushrooms a suitable substrate inside a shaped mold. After the mycelium finish colonizing the substrate, take your mycelium block out and dry it. Done.
Scaling production, finding mushroom genetics suited for material fabrication (as opposed to medicinal or gourmet cultivation), engineering molds for desired growth patterns, retaining mold details, drying material, building with reinforcements, calculating shrinkage, and strategizing for lasting preservation is poorly understood… to my knowledge, these things have not been catalogued in a way that has been made available to the public.
At the moment, I’m using the mycelium of native LA fungi I’ve cloned for a series of sculptures. I’m not ready to talk about this project yet, but there are plans to release an ebook or a workshop here in LA to make my findings available and receive help from others interested in this subject.
Mary: Oooh, we'll look forward to hearing more! You touch on a great point - In the grand scheme of things, we've cultivated so few species of fungi, and most of those are for food, some for medicine. So much to explore beyond that. Even within gourmet mushrooms we can culture bioregionally adapted species. We're in an exciting time!
Okay, let’s pivot to Myco Myco - what inspired you to start a mushroom farm?
At the moment, I’m using the mycelium of native LA fungi I’ve cloned for a series of sculptures. I’m not ready to talk about this project yet, but there are plans to release an ebook or a workshop here in LA to make my findings available and receive help from others interested in this subject.
Mary: Oooh, we'll look forward to hearing more! You touch on a great point - In the grand scheme of things, we've cultivated so few species of fungi, and most of those are for food, some for medicine. So much to explore beyond that. Even within gourmet mushrooms we can culture bioregionally adapted species. We're in an exciting time!
Okay, let’s pivot to Myco Myco - what inspired you to start a mushroom farm?
Sam: I needed a job and LA needed a mushroom farm! Mushrooms make me feel good and I enjoy eating them. It’s hard work, but it’s simple. Good food is useful. It’s useful everyday. Local mushroom farming makes a lot of sense and we should be doing more of it. There’s plenty of room for everyone.
Mary: Oh definitely. There's been a boom with small diversified veggie farms, at least here in the Northeast. Perhaps mushroom cultivation is in the next wave of bolstering local food systems. What’s your setup like?
The fruiting chamber
The Myco Myco lab
Myco Myco at market
Ganoderma sinense from a culture developed by Terrestrial Fungi
Sam: My facility exists in a windowless basement below my studio. My current set up is fairly straightforward: a positively pressured lab with an 85 gallon atmospheric steamer for blocks. My flowhood lab workstation sits next to my All American canner for spawn and agar. The fruiting chamber has 2x4 stud walls wrapped in poly, an ultrasonic mister hooked up to a hydrometer, and active intake and exhaust with filtration.
Like most mushroom cultivators, I’m constantly tinkering with the equipment and my set up. There’s the mushrooms I grow for the farm, there’s the mushrooms growing out of my sculptures for art, and there’s experimental trials for natives and rare fungi I collect. These mushrooms don’t always get along in the same space together, but we make it work.
The plan is to move the farm to a larger commercial facility soon. We’re at max capacity in the dungeon.
The fruiting chamber
The Myco Myco lab
Myco Myco at market
Ganoderma sinense from a culture developed by Terrestrial Fungi
Sam: My facility exists in a windowless basement below my studio. My current set up is fairly straightforward: a positively pressured lab with an 85 gallon atmospheric steamer for blocks. My flowhood lab workstation sits next to my All American canner for spawn and agar. The fruiting chamber has 2x4 stud walls wrapped in poly, an ultrasonic mister hooked up to a hydrometer, and active intake and exhaust with filtration.
Like most mushroom cultivators, I’m constantly tinkering with the equipment and my set up. There’s the mushrooms I grow for the farm, there’s the mushrooms growing out of my sculptures for art, and there’s experimental trials for natives and rare fungi I collect. These mushrooms don’t always get along in the same space together, but we make it work.
The plan is to move the farm to a larger commercial facility soon. We’re at max capacity in the dungeon.
Mary: Hah - a dungeon is a totally appropriate place for growing mushrooms. You mentioned it was fairly recent that you began Myco Myco. What's it been like?
Sam: The demand and interest is high. It’s been great. We sell out before 11am every Sunday at the farmer’s market. My partner and I moved back to California in August, Myco Myco started business in February. It’s been 4 months and we are already approaching our next move. I never expected things to move this fast, but I’m following the momentum. A long way to go, but so far so good. I feel very lucky.
Mary: Glad to hear you're off to a running start breaking into the market in LA! What mushrooms are you currently growing and are there any you’re looking to add on or new varieties to try?
Sam: Lion’s mane, pioppino, and speckled chestnut are incredible gourmets. I’ve worked hard to dial in those varieties simply because I love eating them. We’ll cycle through shiitake, blue oyster, yellow oyster, and reishi as well. During the colder months I was growing king oysters. Thanks to North Spore, I’ll be trying your nameko and maitake this summer. Myco Myco cultivates mushrooms that are good to eat, not the ones that just look good on instagram.
There’s a creative freedom afforded to a small operation like Myco Myco. We don’t have big contracts with university cafeterias or grocery stores, so we might as well play around. There’s hundreds of cultivatable gourmet varieties and the United States only utilizes a small portion of them. I want to try everything. It’s unrealistic to have as many projects as I do, but that’s how my brain works. For example, I’ve spent over 2 years trying to cultivate Fistulina hepatica, beefsteak polypore, indoors. I’ll figure it out.
Lion's mane. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Chestnuts. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Lion's mane. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Chestnuts. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Mary: Glad to hear you're off to a running start breaking into the market in LA! What mushrooms are you currently growing and are there any you’re looking to add on or new varieties to try?
Sam: Lion’s mane, pioppino, and speckled chestnut are incredible gourmets. I’ve worked hard to dial in those varieties simply because I love eating them. We’ll cycle through shiitake, blue oyster, yellow oyster, and reishi as well. During the colder months I was growing king oysters. Thanks to North Spore, I’ll be trying your nameko and maitake this summer. Myco Myco cultivates mushrooms that are good to eat, not the ones that just look good on instagram.
Mary: Yes! That's a species we're curious about, too. It's good to keep experimenting. So much to learn yet in mycology. I really appreciate that this field really relies on the contributions of 'amateurs' or citizen scientists- you can be an expert without a degree. That there's a lot of room for collectively held knowledge.
What are some of the challenges you’ve encountered in growing mushrooms?
Sam: Contamination! It’s reassuring to hear seasoned mycologists with decades of experience share their ongoing battles with contamination. You start working smarter, but the challenge is always there. In the beginning you lose your mind over trichoderma, but blotch is even worse. Whenever I think I have things under control contamination will show up to knock my ego down a few pegs.
Pioppinos. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Golden oysters. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Mary: It certainly keeps you humble. What are your go-to recipes for eating mushrooms? Do you use them medicinally?
Sam: There are all kinds of complicated recipes for mushrooms online. It’s easy to overthink it, which adds to the apprehension people have for cooking with mushrooms. At the farmers market I try to give my customers permission to prepare their mushrooms like the other vegetables and proteins they prepare at home. Everything tastes good when sautéed at a high heat with butter and garlic. From there you can refine your recipes like anything else.
My good friend Carlos Jaquez built these incredible recipes for our upcoming website using mushrooms from Myco Myco. My favorite is the lion’s mane chilaquiles verde. Carlos is an inspiration. I’ve had some of my favorite meals in LA at his Birria Pa La Cruda stand in El Sereno.
I use my own lions mane and reishi extractions daily. Microdosing saved my life. Cordyceps militaris is another good one, but I haven’t cultivated any for a while. I stopped using chaga because I’m concerned about its sustainability.
Mary: Wow, that sounds delicious. We'll have to keep our eyes out for when y'all share the recipes! Alright, final questions.
Do you have a favorite mushroom and why?
Sam: Marasmius plicatulus. I feel a strong connection with this mushroom, it’s the first mushroom I fell in love with. I was actually going to name the farm Marasmius, but then I realized I would be one letter away from the disease of severe infant malnutrition (marasmus). BAD LOOK!
Pioppinos. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Golden oysters. Image credit: Elizabeth Hibbard
Mary: It certainly keeps you humble. What are your go-to recipes for eating mushrooms? Do you use them medicinally?
Sam: There are all kinds of complicated recipes for mushrooms online. It’s easy to overthink it, which adds to the apprehension people have for cooking with mushrooms. At the farmers market I try to give my customers permission to prepare their mushrooms like the other vegetables and proteins they prepare at home. Everything tastes good when sautéed at a high heat with butter and garlic. From there you can refine your recipes like anything else.
My good friend Carlos Jaquez built these incredible recipes for our upcoming website using mushrooms from Myco Myco. My favorite is the lion’s mane chilaquiles verde. Carlos is an inspiration. I’ve had some of my favorite meals in LA at his Birria Pa La Cruda stand in El Sereno.
I use my own lions mane and reishi extractions daily. Microdosing saved my life. Cordyceps militaris is another good one, but I haven’t cultivated any for a while. I stopped using chaga because I’m concerned about its sustainability.
Mary: Wow, that sounds delicious. We'll have to keep our eyes out for when y'all share the recipes! Alright, final questions.
Do you have a favorite mushroom and why?
Sam: Marasmius plicatulus. I feel a strong connection with this mushroom, it’s the first mushroom I fell in love with. I was actually going to name the farm Marasmius, but then I realized I would be one letter away from the disease of severe infant malnutrition (marasmus). BAD LOOK!
Mary: Hah! That's a good call. Any nuggets of wisdom you’d like to share with folks who are curious about growing and exploring different ways to work with fungi?
Sam: What works for one person might not work for you. Enjoy the experimentation. These books and “teks” on cultivating mushrooms are always being revised and debated. Very few cultivation practices are agreed upon, even amongst professionals. Be patient, trust yourself, have fun, drink plenty of water. You’re doing fine.